Awesome project! And particularly interesting to see two friends of mine coding together!
Mustafa K. Isik
· 1 year ago
Andreas, great to hear that you like it - especially since I suspect that you are literally buried under interesting projects at Kids Make Stuff.
Mirko Stocker
· 1 year ago
Hi!
Inspired from your video we tried the collaborative editing, but it didn't really work that well. Each keystroke took several seconds until it came up in the peer's editor. We first blamed the Jabber server, but setting up our own server in the LAN didn't help at all. Any ideas? We'll certainly re-try it with the released Ganymede version; it seems to be fun :-) (and we maybe could use it at school to give 'remote support' to the students..).
Mustafa K. Isik
· 1 year ago
Mirko, what you describe is exactly the reason for having a synchronization mechanism to resolve editing conflicts in the first place. Synchronization and conflict resolution would not be as important as they are, If modifications could be communicated and applied to remote sites instantaneously.
The editing session in the screencast took place in Munich, Germany - with both participants being geographically separated (within city bounds) and on different ISPs. Cola has also been used in editing sessions among participants located in Europe and the US respectively.
It might be that there is something wrong with the network you are on.
Could you do me a favor and share and edit a simple text document and let me know what you experience?
Scott Lewis
· 1 year ago
Hi Mirko,
In testing, I've experienced some problems with latency on Skype, but I have not see a major problem (yet) with either GoogleTalk or OpenFire's jabber server (I haven't had access to testing all jabber servers, however).
We would appreciate any reports of difficulties reported as bugs against ECF at bugs.eclipse.org under Technology/ECF ...and we'll do our best to address them and/or help with workarounds (even if it's some issue with high latency in your network...as I agree with Mustafa it seems to be based upon your description).
Scott R
· 1 year ago
Awesome demo. Love to see this submitted as a short talk for next years EclipseCon. Please think about it when the submission process opens up in October 2008.
Mikkel Andersen
· 1 year ago
That is extreamly cool!!! Thanks for sharing this!!! We will start using it very soon.
eu
· 1 year ago
Very cool indeed. Though it is unfortunate that you and your friend haven't been using Eclipse code completion, quick fixes and actions like organize imports (Ctrl-Shift-O). I wonder if it because you don't know about those or shared editor don't support stuff like that?
Scott Lewis
· 1 year ago
To answer your question...code completion, quick fixes, and organize import are currently supported for the shared editing initiator..Mustafa simply didn't use them in this video. For the receiver we will likely be addressing this in the future.
Nicolas Richeton
· 1 year ago
Great demo. I was missing this feature for a long time. ECF is a really cool projet. I tried to use the shared editor with a colleague today, but I was not successful.
I was able to initiate the Shared editor, then share it, but only changes made by the initiator where applied to the contributor editor. Contributor's changes were never sent, even if we wait several minutes.
We're using ECF 2.0.0. 20080406, Eclipse 3.3, and a local openfire server. We can send messages to each other from Eclipse.
Nicolas, great that the demo got you all fired up to try Cola :)
You need the latest ECF build - which as of this writing is ECF 2.0.0 RC5, released on July 17th, 2008 - for Cola functionality.
I would suggest, that you and your colleague update your Eclipse installation accordingly via the official ECF update site - see link & instructions on the downloads page. Please let me know what the results are via your Eclipse Bugzilla entry, I'll subscribe to it.
jervin
· 1 year ago
It is nice to see an example of this working. I will try it out here with the 3.4 release of Eclipse, earlier versions I had varying degrees of success.
One question though, you still have to share each editor session right? I mean you couldn't share out a project or projects, so as to allow people to work on different files at the same time or allow you to like browse to another class and let the people you are sharing with follow automatically?
Mustafa K. Isik
· 1 year ago
Jervin, I do not know which earlier versions you are referring to, as this is the first version to be released. You might be talking about an exemplary app I wrote in 2006 or a non-conflict resolving exemplary app by Ken Gilmer which is even older.
Currently, you have to share each editor session separately. The project-share feature is an obvious next step - we have talked about it a few times internally. It is good to hear that there is interest in such a feature. Depending on scheduling issues, I suppose that either I or a future volunteer will implement something along those lines.
There is a number of extensions others and I have in mind and we have started talking about those. I suggest that such discussion happens in structured form via feature requests on the Eclipse Bugzilla. Feel free to submit one, mark it for ecf.cola and put me on cc.
although my inner geek says "this is really cool", is real-time editing an effective way to write new code? i mean this seems like introducing an another distraction to your coding session.
But for code review, this may be an invaluable tool.
Mustafa K. Isik
· 1 year ago
I suppose it depends on your particular coding style and the type of code you are working on. Many ways lead to Rome after all, under certain circumstances this might prove to be the best path to take.
Listen to your inner geek :)
Scott Lewis
· 1 year ago
IMHO whether this is a 'distraction', an 'effective way to write new code', or an 'invaluable tool' is dependent upon 1) the use case (e.g. code review, pair programming, friends hacking, etc); and 2) the people involved (e.g. friends, colleagues, cross-or-within org collaborators, etc). In other words, it's likely to be all three and more under the write/wrong conditions.
Breno
· 1 year ago
Isik,
My project is designer all in php and this tools COLA is to java's files. I connected wih my co worker and I renamed the file of the .php to .java for to able to use the Cola tool. Does has away to enable this to php files?
I don't found any e-mail contact to support. Does have it?
The ECF team's newsgroup is: news:eclipse.technology.ecf and the mailing list is ecf-dev at eclipse.org. Please post any questions directly to that list and support will be provided (or if more support is needed it can be found).
Scott Lewis
· 1 year ago
Hi Breno. I've created a wiki page that describes how to use cola with the PDT project's php editor:
Also, for support you can post a newsgroup posting to news:eclipse.technology.ecf
or better yet send an email to the ecf dev mailing list: ecf-dev at eclipse.org.
Roaa Mohammed
· 1 year ago
I really like it, but let me ask about your internet connection speed that you were using in the video?? good job..
Alexandr
· 1 year ago
it's a great project!!!
But... Can you make an instruction how to use it. I try to use DocShare plugin, but it doesn't work I'll very happy if you make spet-by-step instruction with pictures for Eclipse CDT 3.4
jpastore
· 1 year ago
We're having difficulty getting to function properly. We only got shared editor going only once. Also can we get this working with any editor or plugin? Is there a step by step guide for beginners to try and make this work?
Juliano
· 1 year ago
Very interesting Mustafa!
kindkid
· 1 year ago
This is really exciting, any chance of integrating with a web service like http://collabedit.com/?
It'd be nice if I had Cola installed in eclipse, then I click to share with some web service. It sticks a URL in my paste buffer, which I paste into my friend's chat window. They open it up and start editing along with me from their web browser, without ever even firing eclipse on their end. I still get the syntax editing and code completion, they get the benefit of not having to install some software just to help me out for an hour. Just an idea. :)
Kevin Goslar
· 1 year ago
Good to see you involved in such an exciting project, Mustafa!! This could lead to enabling pair programming in distributed teams. Looking forward to it.
Greetings from Santa Monica, Kevin
magomarcelo
· 1 year ago
great, but definitely not new. What would really make the difference - even if I am mostly an Eclipse user - would be a joint effort to make this plugin interoperable with similar existing features in NetBeans (collab.netbeans.org) and maybe IDEA and others.
butchland
· 1 year ago
Hi Mustafa,
Just wanted to let you know I did a short 5 minute demo of COLA for the 1st Manila Bar Camp last August 21, 2008 (see http://www.flickr.com/photos/existglobal/278531... ). I think your project is one of the coolest things I've seen in a while (which is why picked I it for my demo). Everybody there thought it was really cool as well. :)
Best regards,
Butch
PS. Thats me sitting down on a bean bag with my laptop with the screen on displayed on the projector, with my co-editor sitting on the next room visible across a glass partition...
Mustafa K. Isik
· 1 year ago
Hi Butch,
Thank you very much for letting me know and linking to a flickr photo of the event.
The geek world is truly a cozy little village - a Barcamp Manila demo of Cola is seriously cool ;)
This is a very nice feature -- probably not for use all the time but great as a pair programming or code reviewing tool.
That said I am at a loss to get it working with my Eclipse 3.4. I have scoured the docs, the wikis and of course Google. I am told (http://wiki.eclipse.org/DocShare_Plugin) that ECF 2.2 includes a DocShare plug-in but I don't see it.
Not being able to try this is driving me crazy. Aaargh. I would appreciate it if you could point me the obvious ;-P
acodring
· 1 year ago
Sorry to take the conversation away from your spectacular tandem programming exploits, but I'd love to get a 'how to' post explaining how you recorded your screen and webcam for this. Even just the names of the tools used for real time capture and any editing tools used afterwards. Googling turns up a dizzying array of options and approaches!
I'm a new Mac convert and when it came time to figure out the best approach to screen capture I remembered watching your video many months ago and being very impressed with the quality and how nicely integrated the webcam is with normal on screen action. That you seem to have done it all in one take is just plain artistry!
I think a reply here will find me through Disqus, or I'm @acodring on twitter.
Mustafa K. Isik
· 1 year ago
WRT taking away the conversation from [my] spectacular tandem programming exploits, no worries ... but exploits?
As for the rest of your comment, thanks for the laurels ;)
I understand that you feel a little lost with the many choices for screencasting software available for OS X. So did I. My favorite is Screenflow developed by Vara Software. IMHO it is easy and fun to use. It does exactly what I need it to do. I recorded the Cola screencast using the software.
Has Cola: Real-Time Shared Editing something to do Rational Team Concert based onJazz ?
Dappes
· 1 year ago
Has Cola: Real-Time Shared Editing something to do Rational Team Concert based onJazz ?
baybora.oren
· 6 months ago
Nice project, thanks :)
fr4gus
· 6 months ago
I think it's a great idea for collaborating. But I see a little annoying be writing and suddenly where I was writing was moved a line below or to the right of the screen. I guess it will require some time to get used to it.
youssef
· 1 year ago
when I share document from my workspace with my colleague who has the same document in his workspace, it doesn't recognize that and it opens a new document for him ! This is really very deeply disappointing because we can't do REAL pair programming if we can't share files within the same project !
Mustafa K. Isik
· 1 year ago
Youssef,
Too bad you are "really deeply" disappointed and can't engage in "REAL pair programming".
Cola is the synchronization mechanism for DocShare and we are aware of the feature you have implicitly suggested for latter component.
btw, atom feeds for comments in your blog is not working.
Mustafa K. Isik
· 1 year ago
Youssef,
Posting a link to a flamepost as you did borders on trolling - if it has not crossed that line already.
On the other hand it is also very revealing in that the screenshot coming with the post, shows that the two of you are not even using Cola. IMO you should use Cola before making such strong comments.
Since - for obvious reasons - I am passionate about ECF and Cola in particular, I wouldn't mind helping you guys out, but you have to give up what I perceive as hostile stance first.
youssef
· 1 year ago
Mustafa; Thanks again for your reply and sorry if you feel offended by the link I posted. My intention was to show some of the issues we had ! Sorry again! Plus, I don't really think the issues in ECF is related to Cola in particular, I have watched your talk in google and it was a great one ! Thanks for offering help, but we did tried Cola and it worked only with google accounts (not on our private Jabber) and it wasn't of much help because as you already said, it doesn't support sharing same files in same project ! Looking forward for a better ECF release next time.
Mustafa K. Isik
· 1 year ago
Thank you for your reply and no hard feelings.
We are working on adding more features and improving ECF all the time - in our spare time. I sincerely hope that your experience with one of the upcoming releases proves to be a better one.
I suggest that you either follow my blog and/or Scott Lewis' ECF blog for future announcements.
As for the issue with using DocShare/Cola via various non-Google XMPP/Jabber servers, we have heard of similar issues. Even though this might sound like us passing on the blame, it seems as if the problem is related to the different server software doing something "not right".
Scott looked closer into the issue and I am sure he'd be willing to help via the ecf mailing list, i.e. ecf-dev@eclipse.org Feel free to drop the list an email.
Scott
· 1 year ago
FWIW, for workspace synchronization/sharing there is this enhancement request:
All Comments
And particularly interesting to see two friends of mine coding together!
Inspired from your video we tried the collaborative editing, but it didn't really work that well. Each keystroke took several seconds until it came up in the peer's editor. We first blamed the Jabber server, but setting up our own server in the LAN didn't help at all. Any ideas? We'll certainly re-try it with the released Ganymede version; it seems to be fun :-) (and we maybe could use it at school to give 'remote support' to the students..).
The editing session in the screencast took place in Munich, Germany - with both participants being geographically separated (within city bounds) and on different ISPs. Cola has also been used in editing sessions among participants located in Europe and the US respectively.
It might be that there is something wrong with the network you are on.
Could you do me a favor and share and edit a simple text document and let me know what you experience?
In testing, I've experienced some problems with latency on Skype, but I have not see a major problem (yet) with either GoogleTalk or OpenFire's jabber server (I haven't had access to testing all jabber servers, however).
We would appreciate any reports of difficulties reported as bugs against ECF at bugs.eclipse.org under Technology/ECF ...and we'll do our best to address them and/or help with workarounds (even if it's some issue with high latency in your network...as I agree with Mustafa it seems to be based upon your description).
I tried to use the shared editor with a colleague today, but I was not successful.
I was able to initiate the Shared editor, then share it, but only changes made by the initiator where applied to the contributor editor. Contributor's changes were never sent, even if we wait several minutes.
We're using ECF 2.0.0. 20080406, Eclipse 3.3, and a local openfire server. We can send messages to each other from Eclipse.
I opened this bug : https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=2...
Thanks,
Nicolas
You need the latest ECF build - which as of this writing is ECF 2.0.0 RC5, released on July 17th, 2008 - for Cola functionality.
I would suggest, that you and your colleague update your Eclipse installation accordingly via the official ECF update site - see link & instructions on the downloads page. Please let me know what the results are via your Eclipse Bugzilla entry, I'll subscribe to it.
One question though, you still have to share each editor session right? I mean you couldn't share out a project or projects, so as to allow people to work on different files at the same time or allow you to like browse to another class and let the people you are sharing with follow automatically?
Currently, you have to share each editor session separately. The project-share feature is an obvious next step - we have talked about it a few times internally. It is good to hear that there is interest in such a feature. Depending on scheduling issues, I suppose that either I or a future volunteer will implement something along those lines.
There is a number of extensions others and I have in mind and we have started talking about those. I suggest that such discussion happens in structured form via feature requests on the Eclipse Bugzilla. Feel free to submit one, mark it for ecf.cola and put me on cc.
public static void main(String[] args) {
http://friendfeed.com/e/7485719f-2b9c-762a-46aa...
Thanks for your careful observation though ;)
But for code review, this may be an invaluable tool.
Listen to your inner geek :)
My project is designer all in php and this tools COLA is to java's files. I connected wih my co worker and I renamed the file of the .php to .java for to able to use the Cola tool. Does has away to enable this to php files?
I don't found any e-mail contact to support. Does have it?
thanks
Breno
The ECF team's newsgroup is: news:eclipse.technology.ecf and the mailing list is ecf-dev at eclipse.org. Please post any questions directly to that list and support will be provided (or if more support is needed it can be found).
http://wiki.eclipse.org/Extending_Real-Time_Sha...
Also, for support you can post a newsgroup posting to news:eclipse.technology.ecf
or better yet send an email to the ecf dev mailing list: ecf-dev at eclipse.org.
good job..
But...
Can you make an instruction how to use it. I try to use DocShare plugin, but it doesn't work
I'll very happy if you make spet-by-step instruction with pictures for Eclipse CDT 3.4
It'd be nice if I had Cola installed in eclipse, then I click to share with some web service. It sticks a URL in my paste buffer, which I paste into my friend's chat window. They open it up and start editing along with me from their web browser, without ever even firing eclipse on their end. I still get the syntax editing and code completion, they get the benefit of not having to install some software just to help me out for an hour. Just an idea. :)
Greetings from Santa Monica,
Kevin
Just wanted to let you know I did a short 5 minute demo of COLA for the 1st Manila Bar Camp last August 21, 2008
(see http://www.flickr.com/photos/existglobal/278531... ). I think your project is one of the coolest
things I've seen in a while (which is why picked I it for my demo). Everybody there thought it was really cool as well. :)
Best regards,
Butch
PS. Thats me sitting down on a bean bag with my laptop with the screen on displayed on the projector, with
my co-editor sitting on the next room visible across a glass partition...
Thank you very much for letting me know and linking to a flickr photo
of the event.
The geek world is truly a cozy little village - a Barcamp Manila demo
of Cola is seriously cool ;)
--
Mustafa K. Isik
http://codesurgeonblog.com
That said I am at a loss to get it working with my Eclipse 3.4. I have scoured the docs, the wikis and of course Google. I am told (http://wiki.eclipse.org/DocShare_Plugin) that ECF 2.2 includes a DocShare plug-in but I don't see it.
Not being able to try this is driving me crazy. Aaargh. I would appreciate it if you could point me the obvious ;-P
I'm a new Mac convert and when it came time to figure out the best approach to screen capture I remembered watching your video many months ago and being very impressed with the quality and how nicely integrated the webcam is with normal on screen action. That you seem to have done it all in one take is just plain artistry!
I think a reply here will find me through Disqus, or I'm @acodring on twitter.
As for the rest of your comment, thanks for the laurels ;)
I understand that you feel a little lost with the many choices for screencasting software available for OS X. So did I. My favorite is Screenflow developed by Vara Software. IMHO it is easy and fun to use. It does exactly what I need it to do. I recorded the Cola screencast using the software.
This is really very deeply disappointing because we can't do REAL pair programming if we can't share files within the same project !
Too bad you are "really deeply" disappointed and can't engage in "REAL
pair programming".
Cola is the synchronization mechanism for DocShare and we are aware of
the feature you have implicitly suggested for latter component.
Thank you for your feedback.
http://www.jroller.com/robwilliams/entry/eclips...
btw, atom feeds for comments in your blog is not working.
Posting a link to a flamepost as you did borders on trolling - if it has not crossed that line already.
On the other hand it is also very revealing in that the screenshot coming with the post, shows that the two of you are not even using Cola. IMO you should use Cola before making such strong comments.
Since - for obvious reasons - I am passionate about ECF and Cola in particular, I wouldn't mind helping you guys out, but you have to give up what I perceive as hostile stance first.
Thanks again for your reply and sorry if you feel offended by the link I posted. My intention was to show some of the issues we had ! Sorry again!
Plus, I don't really think the issues in ECF is related to Cola in particular, I have watched your talk in google and it was a great one !
Thanks for offering help, but we did tried Cola and it worked only with google accounts (not on our private Jabber) and it wasn't of much help because as you already said, it doesn't support sharing same files in same project !
Looking forward for a better ECF release next time.
We are working on adding more features and improving ECF all the time - in our spare time. I sincerely hope that your experience with one of the upcoming releases proves to be a better one.
I suggest that you either follow my blog and/or Scott Lewis' ECF blog for future announcements.
As for the issue with using DocShare/Cola via various non-Google XMPP/Jabber servers, we have heard of similar issues. Even though this
might sound like us passing on the blame, it seems as if the problem is related to the different server software doing something "not right".
Scott looked closer into the issue and I am sure he'd be willing to help via the ecf mailing list, i.e. ecf-dev@eclipse.org Feel free to drop the list an email.
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=2...
Please vote for this enhancement by adding yourself to the bug.
There is also this bug that may be causing the difficulties with getting the real-time shared editing to work
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=2...